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Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December
Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December
IGN - January 24, 2008
Submitted by lstormy10 (294) at 1:04PM PST on January 24, 2008
"If you're still under the impression that consumers are only buying Nintendo's new console for Wii Sports, perhaps the latest software to hardware tie ratio numbers from the NPD Group will change your mind. According to the software data tracking service, consumers purchased 8.11 games for every Wii console sold in December. This relates to 7.76 games for every Xbox 360 sold during the month and 5.04 games for every PlayStation 3 purchased in the same time frame."
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2apujanata posted on Wii (Wii) at 9:14PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@lstormy10,
What I was thinking about Wii and 3.5 users per household is along this line :
- You (and me), as hardcore, we bought RE4, SMG, RE:UC and other (hardcore) game.
- My wife, or kids, as casual, they bought other game, like Carnival Games, Cooking Mama, Big Brain Academy and other (casual) game. Of course, my kids doesn't have fixed income, so their game purchase will come from their savings / allowance, not from my budget (except during christmas).
If it is only me that is playing Wii, my purchase of game will not be as much as compared to when me + family play Wii. This is one of the possible explanatin of the high tie-in ratio for Wii in Dec 07.
Of course, there are still Wii Hardcore gamer, but the percentage is significantly less than X360 Hardcore gamer.
PS : I am not sure whether SMG should be categorized as casual games or hardcore game, so I put it as hardcore.[ Oracle ] [ Level 30 ] [ Rank: 14935 ]bids
1lstormy10 posted on Wii (Wii) at 8:06PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@rikitikitik,
I do not know any figures on the tie-in ratios for GC or PS2, but on your comment about it's easier to increase the tie-in ratios for consoles with lower total sales: I do not think it is totally easier because of the fact that if you do have more hardware sales, then there are more potential customers for software (and since they already bought the hardware, another game - even from the bargain bin - is something that is easy to justify).
@apujanata,
You raise an intersting point, but how that affects software sales is not something that is totally clear as of now. Also, there are still hardcore gamers that own a Wii (myself being one), but the number is smaller than the 360 crowd, obviously. The hardcore gamers that do own Wiis (many of the first adopters were of this 'type') do contribute significantly to the tie-in ratios and software sales on the Wii. The success of RE4, SMG, GH3, LoZ, and RE: UC all show that there are a dedicated hardcore base on the Wii even though it may be smaller than home consoles have had in the past - though the hardcore group can boost software sales and tie-in ratios.[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
3rikitikitik posted on Wii (Wii) at 7:48PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@apujanata,
I agree that it helps, but that's a big if. I would hazard a guess that a significant amount of Wii-owning households would only have around two users that have enough dispensable income to buy games. Other households may have a pooled income when it comes to non-essential purchases.
Nevertheless, more users per household would still mean higher potential purchases per household. The extent of increase is still up in the air.
Also, beat in what sense? If in total software sales, definitely, as the 14-month sales figures illustrate clearly. The Wii is poised to beat the total console sales of the 360 and the PS3 combined soon and software sales will be more monstrous than it is now.
But tie ratios? I'm not inclined to agree YET. It's easier to increase the tie ratios for consoles with lower total sales.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Gamecube have a higher tie-ratio than the PS2? All I can remember was that the Gamecube tie ratio is surprisingly high for a 3rd-place console, especially given the lack of software releases for the console. The 360 doesn't look like it will cease having software support anytime soon, unlike the GC.[ Oracle ] [ Level 21 ] [ Rank: 288 ]bids
1apujanata posted on Wii (Wii) at 7:30PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@rikitikitik,
One of the reason why the casual (Wii owner) can beat hardcore (X360 owner) is because more people use Wii (3.5 users per household), while most probably one 1.5 users per household use X360. If every 3.5 Wii users buy their own separate games, it can come close or even beat X360 owners[ Oracle ] [ Level 30 ] [ Rank: 14935 ]bids
3rikitikitik posted on Wii (Wii) at 6:36PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@lstormy10,
I actually got the number from a NeoGAF thread discussing the same article. I looked for more solid references, though:
The tie-ratio at 14 months for the 360 is 5.1.
Although I'm sure more accurate numbers can be attained, the 360 sold around 4M consoles on its first 14 months. Thus, the ~20M software sold on its first 14 months.[ Oracle ] [ Level 21 ] [ Rank: 288 ]bids
1lstormy10 posted on Wii (Wii) at 6:02PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@rikitikitik,
This is one thing I was trying to convey to feelmyring - that the tie-in ration is per console and that the Wii has much better software sales in total than the PS3 as of now.
Nice numbers, where did you get the 360 statistic about its first 14 months?[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
3lstormy10 posted on Wii (Wii) at 5:58PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@feelmyring,
That was not my argument at all. You did bring the PS3 into the discussion by stating that the PS3 was essentially doing better than the Wii because it has "1/3" the hardware sales of Wii, but only a slightly lower tie-in ratio. This is obviously only for the U.S. that I am discussing. I argued and showed that just because the PS3 has sold only 1/3 the amount of consoles sold and only a slightly lower tie-in ratio for software that this does not reflect badly on the Wii at all (it shows that the software on the Wii is performing better than the software on the PS3). I merely responded to you making the PS3 in relation to the Wii a part of this discussion.
I stated and meant (as apujanata also addressed some of your flawed logic in the terms of the tie-in ratios) that your saying that the statistic shows that the PS3 is performing better in software in relation to the Wii software sales is invalid. The tie-in ratio is games per console and therefore even if a platform may have a smaller installed base (as in the PS3) than another platform (the Wii), just because the tie-in ratios are close does not mean the platform with the larger installed base (the Wii) is doing bad in terms of software sales - in fact, it merely means that they are both selling close to the same number of games per console (a significant thing when you bring up the fact that the Wii has a larger casual base rather than a more hardcore base that the PS3 has, when a hardcore base tends to buy more games in the past and the present). This shows that even though Wii has a larger casual base than another console released almost at the same time that has a larger hardcore base (the PS3), it is still able to maintain the same amount of software sales per console (and that the Wii has much higher software sales in total than the PS3 as of now in the U.S.).
If your point is that "it doesn't matter how many consoles are sold if the games don't sell", then you must also take a similar stance on the PS3 based on the data at this time as you do the Wii if you follow the meaning of the statistics that you see (that the PS3 and Wii are selling about the same in terms of software per console with the Wii selling a higher total amount of software).[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
5rikitikitik posted on Wii (Wii) at 5:50PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@feelmyring,
"a system that doesn't sell a ton of games"
Tie ratios are worthless alone. They should be looked at with other numbers to have it make sense. In this case, if we include the LTD consoles sold and multiply them with their tie ratios, we get the total number of software sold to date:
360: ~9M x 7 = 63M
Wii: ~7M x 4.64 = 32.48M
PS3: ~3M x 4.26 = 12.78M
For reference, the 360 sold 23M software in its first 14 months.
Doesn't sell a ton of games? Hardly.
"and has nothing else to offer but gaming"
That didn't stop the NES, SNES, GameBoy, and DS from having such a long-lasting power, no?[ Oracle ] [ Level 21 ] [ Rank: 288 ]bids
3Laoldar posted on Wii (Wii) at 5:42PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@feelmyring,
Looking at only the tie in ratios isn't that helpful.
For instance, Nintendo makes more money off its games and hardware than Sony does. It can have a LOWER tie in ratio and the system will be much more profitable for them. Also, it isn't necessarily true that the system won't last as long. The Gamecube didn't have DVD playback, and yet it lasted just as long as the other two systems (while being quite profitable).
Also, quite a few games are selling very well on the Wii. Going by VGC, the PS3 has 7 million-seller games, while the Wii has over 15. Of course, 11 of these are Nintendo games...but maybe if developers stopped putting out ports and terrible IPs on the Wii, their fortunes would change. Very few have committed their A-list titles to the system, and their sales have suffered. When a Resident Evil or a Guitar Hero is put out (with good controls), the games sell.[ Oracle ] [ Level 21 ] [ Rank: 182 ]bids
0feelmyring posted on Wii (Wii) at 5:28PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@lstormy10,
I don't think PS3 software sales are particularly strong, either. But people are buying PS3 because of other reasons than gaming. That's not part of this discussion, though.
You're using cyclical logic to "prove" that my thinking that the ratio of PS3:Wii doesn't matter, so it can't be a valid argument. Maybe I misunderstood, but it seems like your argument is "the ratio doesn't affect tie-ins, so it doesn't affect tie-ins". That doesn't work. My point is this: it doesn't matter how many consoles are sold if the games don't sell. And it doesn't seem like the games are selling, on a broad basis, for the Wii.
We could argue back and forth about this, and not sway each other's opinions. I'm more interested in the meaning of the statistics, not the statistics themselves. And I'll say again: a system that doesn't sell a ton of games and has nothing else to offer but gaming isn't going to be a lasting power.[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 351 ]bids
1lstormy10 posted on Wii (Wii) at 3:59PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@apujanata,
Xbox 360 is the expected console to have the best tie-in ratio as of this point in time because it has a more hardcore population of owners (who tend to buy more titles) and it has been out the longest with the largest library as of now, meaning that people have had the most time to buy titles for it.
@sagexsdx,
I do not think your comments are entirely true, but they do hold some truth. The one thing that you are not accounting for is that 360 gamers do not all go out and buy a game right away (some wait for a deal on the game and some are too busy buying other titles). Also there are titles that can get Wii owners to go out and buy the copy right away (obviously not all Wii owners, but a good number).
Also, on the comment that 360 did not have any big games release in December: the 360 did however have quite the number of titles launch in November. This means that many titles were still to be picked up in December for various reasons (cannot buy all new good titles at once, holiday season, etc).[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
1sagexsdx posted on Wii (Wii) at 3:35PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@apujanata,
one thing i think should be taken note of is the number of games that were released on Xbox 360 in december. off the top of my head i can't recall any big name games coming out in December.
now the reason why this matters is is because 360 gamers are a peculiar bunch. they tend to buy games right when they come out and move onto the next big thing pretty quick. this isn't the case always (exceptions of course being Halo 3 and COD4). but in general 360 players are early purchasers with a short attention span. (disclaimer: i'm a 360 player so don't take my comments as fanboy bashing)
on the other hand, wii gamers tend to be more towards the casuals. in that case, the behavior expected is that they don't immediately rush to the stores when games come out.
these are just my own opinions and observations though. just my own ways of making sense of this news.[ Oracle ] [ Level 21 ] [ Rank: 148 ]bids
1sagexsdx posted on Wii (Wii) at 3:29PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@lstormy10,
i am honestly very surprised at this new development.[ Oracle ] [ Level 21 ] [ Rank: 148 ]bids
5apujanata posted on Wii (Wii) at 3:13PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@feelmyring,
This is not a bogus stat. Tie-in ratio does not mean the # of games that were sold with consoles. Tie-in ration refer to the total S/W divided by Total H/W. Do you really expect that for every X360 purchase, 7 games are purchased at the same time ?
NPD only provide tie-in ratio in the sense I mentioned above. NPD does not track how many games are purchased at the same time a console was purchased.
Do you know the tie-in ratio for PS2 ? How is it compared to PS3 and Wii ? Without knowing PS2 tie-in ratio, how can you said that Wii Software is doing badly ?
If Wii software are doing badly, how would you categorize PS3 S/W ? Very bad ?
I think you are wrong in concluding that Wii tie-in ratio in Dec 07 are not impressive. With only SMG, it managed to beat up a lot of AAA title on X360. I admit that Wii LTD tie-in ratio are not as impressive as X360.[ Oracle ] [ Level 30 ] [ Rank: 14935 ]bids
2lstormy10 posted on Wii (Wii) at 2:15PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@feelmyring,
Though you have to look at the December tie-in ratio in comparison to the 360 as both were in the same situation. Alone, the December statistic does not mean much. I do not see it as a "spin stat" because the source is fairly unbiased (NPD), but the way you use it in your predicting and buying/shorting on the simExchange depends on how you view it. I believe the information presented in the article is good information that provides insight.
One thing I must say is that in ratios, the amount of hardware does not affect the end ratio in comparison to the amount of software. (That can be a confusing statement, so let me go on.) Per a console, the Wii has sold more software than the PS3 has in the U.S. The number of PS3s in the U.S. does not affect the comparison between the Wii and PS3 as the tie-in ratio is per a console. Therefore, it is easily seen that thus far, the Wii has had better software sales than the PS3 in the U.S. because of the higher number of software titles sold per a console (a number that can be compared between consoles with different hardware numbers). Thusly, your reasoning that the weakness of the Wii's software sales is shown by this statistic in comparison to the PS3 is invalid.[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
0feelmyring posted on Wii (Wii) at 1:38PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@lstormy10,
I think this is kind of a bogus stat, because it doesn't track game sales with consoles; only games sold and consoles sold. While some of those games were sold with consoles, it's pretty obvious that a majority of them were not.
I think this line is the most interesting part of the article:
"it should be noted that Wii's life-to-date software to hardware tie ratio is at 4.64, compared to 4.26 on PlayStation 3 (despite a much smaller installed base) and 7.0 on Xbox 360, according to NPD data."
The Wii only maintains a small edge on the PS3, even though there's 1/3rd the PS3's in the US. I think this is much more important than a "spin stat" about how great Wii software sales are. I also think this is a reason why the Wii will ultimately fall far short of expectations.[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 351 ]bids
1lstormy10 posted on Wii (Wii) at 1:12PM PST on January 24, 2008. RE: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December@lstormy10,
This article highlights information I previously posted about having been dispersed via an IGN podcast (but without the numbers) and it makes the software situation on the Wii look better saying that it beat the 360 in December for tie-in ratio in the U.S. and is beating the PS3 for tie-in ratio thus far in each console's lifetime (though it still has ground to be made up against the 360, but that is to be expected).[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
25lstormy10 posted on Wii (Wii) at 1:04PM PST on January 24, 2008. Article: Wii Tie-in Ratio at 8:1 in December"If you're still under the impression that consumers are only buying Nintendo's new console for Wii Sports, perhaps the latest software to hardware tie ratio numbers from the NPD Group will change your mind. According to the software data tracking service, consumers purchased 8.11 games for every Wii console sold in December. This relates to 7.76 games for every Xbox 360 sold during the month and 5.04 games for every PlayStation 3 purchased in the same time frame."[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]
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I see what you are saying pretty clearly now. This is probably the case in some households, but obviously, not all households. Though a higher number of users per household has never hurt a console.
Also, SMG is a bit of both, but majority of the hardcore Nintendo gamers on the Wii will purchase the title.