Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) > Articles
bids
32
32
Xbox 360 (Xbox 360)
Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360
Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360
FinancialTimes - March 6, 2008
Submitted by llonesmiz (508) at 11:35AM PST on March 6, 2008
The Japanese electronics maker has until now touted Blu-ray as an advantage its PlayStation 3 holds over Microsoft’s console. Microsoft has backed Toshiba’s HD-DVD format and offered an HD-DVD drive that can be plugged into the 360.
But after Sony’s victory last month in the high-definition DVD format war, Stan Glasgow, Sony Electronics US president, said the two sides were now talking about Microsoft adopting Blu-ray.
Discussion - Submit a comment
bids
1lstormy10 posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 7:33PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@Joe80,
It is most definitely possible and probably will happen sometime in the future when Blu-Ray drives that support faster speeds become cheaper than those that don't support the faster speeds or the ones that don't support the faster speeds start to get phased out. An increase in the speed of the drives will probably be quite awhile down the line.[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
1Animate posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 7:30PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@lstormy10,
Ya I don't think Sony will increase the speed of their drives, they're much better off lowering the price with the include 2x drive. I was just arguing that it would be possible because people seemed to imply/say it was not.[ Oracle ] [ Level 26 ] [ Rank: 241 ]bids
1lstormy10 posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 7:19PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@Joe80,
I did not think that you were that stupid, but just wanted to make sure because it wasn't clear if you were talking about the hardware inside the PS3 directly or the rated speed of the disc being put into the PS3.
Sony will probably just continue to put what ever Blu-Ray drive is the cheapest in the PS3, so a deliberate increase in drive speed is probably not going to happen until they recoup more losses on the hardware. Increases in single player load times probably would not be that significant either as the developers would have to code their titles expecting only 2x speed unless they made the code dynamic to take advantage of faster speeds.[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
1Animate posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 6:54PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@lstormy10,
I am aware that the hardware is responsible for disc read speeds, you didn't think I was that stupid did you?
I thought I had clearly implied in my last post that if Sony increased the speed of future PS3 disc drives, it would only affect multiplayer. Those with faster drives would have faster single player loading, but during multiplayer the games would have to default to the 2x speed, particularly for games that require streaming.[ Oracle ] [ Level 26 ] [ Rank: 241 ]bids
1lstormy10 posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 4:45PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@Joe80,
The speed at which a disc can be read not only depends on the disc that the game is on, but also the hardware reading the disc (this is why you will see speed ratings in the descriptions of optical drives for computers and the like). Therefore the fastest speed that the PS3 is capable of currently is 2x as that is the fastest that the actual drive can read. Even if Sony were to increase the speed of the Blu-Ray drive in the PS3 in the future, developers would still need to develop for the lowest common denominator among PS3 Blu-Ray drives being 2x speed.
At this point in time, disc speed is not a major worry for the majority of developers and can only enhance the experience (through faster load times, etc).[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
0Animate posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 3:47PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@lstormy10,
Wouldn't it depend on the game & only affec multiplayer? If you put a faster disc read speed into a console it will be a non issue in single player, you can simply use it to reduce load times.
In multiplayer it would become an issue where games need to continuously stream from the disc, so you default it to the lowest disc speed or implement the same speed through coding. Games that only require loading of levels before the game begins could simply default to lowest disc speed.[ Oracle ] [ Level 26 ] [ Rank: 241 ]bids
1Animate posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 3:39PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@Laoldar,
It's not lack of compression. Take MGS4 for instance, they're compressing parts of the game to get it to fit on 1 Bluray disc, and even then they have to leave out content.
If you take a game that requires 50gb & you compress textures etc to get it to fit on 1-5 DVD's instead of 6 DVD's (& we're talking double layered) then you're going to see that the game will either not look as good, sound as good, or have as many features.
Now why have you not seen any evidence of this yet? Because no multiplatform game bigger than 1 dual layered DVD has been released on both PS3 & 360. The games that are 17-50gb that have been/will be released on PS3 so far have been exclusive to PS3. In the future if games this size go multiplatform you will see compression to fit onto 360 & likely quality degredation/features lost in some aspect of the game.[ Oracle ] [ Level 26 ] [ Rank: 241 ]bids
2lstormy10 posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 3:27PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@kspraydad,
Though it should also be pointed out that DVDs can go up to 16x.
All in all, the type of optical media used by a console this generation is not going to play much of a role in the near term and at this point, probably will not play a role at all in this generation of consoles.[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
1kspraydad posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 3:18PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@sagexsdx,
That is just poor programing on Bethesda's part. If a game like Uncharted can stream without load times for the whole game I'm sure Oblivion could have done. At the very least they could stream in the background to HDD since every PS3 has one.
Has it been pointed out that 2x Blu-ray data throughput is approx the same as a 12x DVD Dual Layer disc...it really is a non issue if your game is programmed properly AFAIK.
[ Oracle ] [ Level 21 ] [ Rank: 475 ]bids
1lstormy10 posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 3:01PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@sagexsdx,
Thanks for the link and I agree with the fact that the PS3 will not be able to take advantage of the faster speeds because of the older ones not having the fastest that I know has actually been developed (though not necessarily in consumer form yet) 12x.[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
2sagexsdx posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 1:50PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@lstormy10,
here's an article with quotes about Oblivion needing to duplicate data to deal with bluray's read speeds.
even if bluray is developed further with better read speeds, that doesn't mean the PS3 can take advantage of it. current owners all have the 2x bluray. and from glancing at discussions, apparently there's 6x bluray. but they can't put those in the ps3, again, due to current owners.[ Oracle ] [ Level 21 ] [ Rank: 148 ]bids
2Laoldar posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 1:47PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@Joe80,
I don't think that's really an issue. Those large PS3 game sizes are caused by the lack of compression, right? So far I have yet to see any evidence that those PS3 games are better quality than 360 games, so I don't see the benefit.
Maybe the day will come where we will see a PS3 game that is impossible to port equally to the 360...but it sure hasn't happened yet.[ Oracle ] [ Level 21 ] [ Rank: 182 ]bids
1Animate posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 1:35PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360MS will never release a 360 that requires games to be on Bluray discs, never. However, their choice of DVD could still haunt them. Already we have PS3 games approaching 50gb. To have such a game ported to 360 would either require 6 dual layered DVDs or serious compression leading to lower quality multiplatform titles.[ Oracle ] [ Level 26 ] [ Rank: 241 ]bids
1lstormy10 posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 1:23PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@Mr_Cynical,
At this point in time, Blu-Ray does have a lower read speed than DVD, though that is something that should become less of a factor as Blu-Ray is developed further and read speeds are increased (as what happened with DVD and most optical media).
Mr_Cynical, can you provide a link to an article about what you mentioned with Oblivion? Just interested in reading it because never heard of that situation.[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
3Mr_Cynical posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 1:15PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360Also bear in mind that the Bluray - DVD thing is a two-way street as far as games are concerned. Bethesda said they had to store content on the Bluray in triplicate for the PS3 version of Oblivion, because the BD-ROM's access speed was so much slower than a DVD (effectively cutting the Bluray's capacity to about 14Gb - just to reduce the seek time). So greater capacity in exchange for longer load times? Looks like Bluray vs Multi-DVD isn't straightforward.[ Veteran ] [ Level 13 ] [ Rank: 905 ]bids
3lstormy10 posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 1:12PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@apujanata,
Baten Kaitos and RE4 on the GC don't compare well because those discs were not full size DVDs and were not dual-layer.
SSBB is a dual-layer DVD and it does not have to deal with having to be HD, so disc space will end up being an issue by the next generation of consoles for even those game that do not have a whole lot of voice acting and pre-rendered video, but by then the consoles will most likely support Blu-Ray for their discs because of the storage capacity. This generation of consoles has not shown that storage capacity on discs is any major worry at all though.
I don't see a Xbox 360 with a built-in Blu-Ray drive for movie playback coming out because Microsoft would be better served maintaining it as an add-on and continuing to pursue their digital distribution of movies on the 360 rather than making it more likely that people will just go ahead and use a Blu-Ray copy of the movie to watch the movie. A 360 with an enlarged HDD at a lower price point (such as the rumor going around about the current 360 model with a 20GB HDD being replaced by one with a 60GB HDD) is more likely than a 360 with a built-in Blu-Ray drive - though an add-on Blu-Ray drive is likely sometime in the future.[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
4lstormy10 posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 1:01PM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360bids
1sagexsdx posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 9:09AM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360bids
2llonesmiz posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 8:37AM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@sagexsdx,
The backlash wouldn't be the main problem. The main problem would be that the install base would be reduced to 0. And I think 0 is not very attractive to publishers.[ Oracle ] [ Level 19 ] [ Rank: 508 ]bids
2sagexsdx posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 7:49AM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@sagexsdx,
my response to apujanata then asks the question "are prerendered video required for epic games?" my example is heavenly sword which, though not hugely epic due to length, uses in-engine cutscenes. that game gets a lot of praise for their cutscenes which (allegedly) are up to standards of prerendered cutscenes.[ Oracle ] [ Level 21 ] [ Rank: 148 ]bids
1sagexsdx posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 7:46AM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@Mr_Cynical,
there would be huge backlash if games required the purchase of the bluray drive. there's already (though minor) backlash about games that require the harddrive but for the most part, that count has been kept at a minimum (the only high profile ones i can think of are FFXI and Burnout Paradise for online play).
the backlash of requiring bluray for games would be law suits. it's more than just about "admitting to mistake"
@apujanata,
do realize that both of those games (actually, not sure about lost odyssey) have a high amount of prerendered video footage. the amount of space high definition video footage takes up compared to using the game engine itself to "act out" the scenes is huge. in game engine cutscenes merely use scripts (ie plain-text files) that manipulate the game engine.[ Oracle ] [ Level 21 ] [ Rank: 148 ]bids
2Mr_Cynical posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 6:55AM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360It would be possible for MS to allow Bluray to be used for games (although I don't think they would - it'd be an admission that not putting a highdef drive in the 360 was a mistake) provided there was an external Bluray drive accessory. That would be no different to some games (e.g Football Manager or Worldwide Soccer Manager as it's known in the US) being unplayable without owning the optional hard drive accessory.[ Veteran ] [ Level 13 ] [ Rank: 905 ]bids
2vGInfidel posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 6:27AM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@apujanata,
your right blue dragon did use up 3 discs.
normally its down to the talent of the developers to how small they can compress the game down into. oblivion which most consider an epic game had no prerendered cut scenes as everything was in game, but it had alot of voice acting and it was a massive world (26sq miles). Yet IIRC it only took up 4GB of disc space. This was down to Bethesda developing better compression techniques specifically for this game otherwise it would not have fit. In the right hands almost any game can be compressed down to size without loss in quality. MGS4 may be an exception to this due to the huge volume of prerendered cut scenes it will have as all MGS games have had. MGS1 or 2 came on more than one disc, i know at least one of them did because i can remember having to switch over whilst playing.[ Oracle ] [ Level 22 ] [ Rank: 150 ]bids
2apujanata posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 6:07AM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@sagexsdx,
While I agree that bluray will not be useable as standard for game delivery on X360, I dont' agree that "Epic games don't require huge amounts of space". Quite a few game have full voice acting and pre-rendered video.
I remember certain games that have more than 1 DVD9 disc, like Blue Dragon (3 DVD9) or Lost Oddsey (4 DVD9). I could be wrong in this one, since I don't have X360, but my friend have it, and I remember he mentioned that those two games have more than 1 disc, just like FF7 and Legend of the Dragoon on PSX have more than 1 disk, and Tales of Symphonia, Baten Kaitos and RE4 on GC also have 2 discs.[ Oracle ] [ Level 30 ] [ Rank: 14935 ]bids
2sagexsdx posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 5:39AM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@Bobuido,
epic games don't require huge amounts of space. what takes up a lot of space is uncompressed audio and prerendered video. look at oblivion as an example of an "epic game". that game fit on a regular DVD9.
also at least in the case of the 360, there is no way that microsoft can make use of a bluray drive for games. that would alienate all previous owners of the 360. the next iteration of hardware could use it, yes. but for this iteration, bluray will be strictly for movies only.[ Oracle ] [ Level 21 ] [ Rank: 148 ]bids
1sagexsdx posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 5:35AM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360bids
2dazer posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 4:45AM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360bids
2Bobuido posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 3:09AM PST on March 7, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360It's funny that MS say they are focused on games but Blu-Ray surely impacts on the games too? If a developer wants to make an epic game bigger than a DVD, then surely that eliminates both the 360 and the Wii. Thus affecting the "360 catalogue".
I also think it's purely a matter of time before MS adds Blu-Ray. What other choice do they have. Online distribution? That would be a joke.[ Contributor ] [ Level 19 ] [ Rank: 467 ]bids
1lstormy10 posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 4:33PM PST on March 6, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@sagexsdx,
I don't think it will be a big suprise to anyone if Microsoft announces a Blu-Ray add-on in the form of what the HD-DVD add-on was. It is almost expected to come sometime down the line.[ Oracle ] [ Level 20 ] [ Rank: 294 ]bids
4sagexsdx posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 1:57PM PST on March 6, 2008. RE: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360@llonesmiz,
an update to this story. Microsoft has responded to this and has said the typical spiel:
"We have made no such announcement. Games are what are driving consumers to purchase game consoles and we remain focused on providing the largest library of blockbuster games available."[ Oracle ] [ Level 21 ] [ Rank: 148 ]bids
32llonesmiz posted on Xbox 360 (Xbox 360) at 11:35AM PST on March 6, 2008. Article: Sony, Microsoft discuss Blu-ray for Xbox 360The Japanese electronics maker has until now touted Blu-ray as an advantage its PlayStation 3 holds over Microsoft’s console. Microsoft has backed Toshiba’s HD-DVD format and offered an HD-DVD drive that can be plugged into the 360. But after Sony’s victory last month in the high-definition DVD format war, Stan Glasgow, Sony Electronics US president, said the two sides were now talking about Microsoft adopting Blu-ray.[ Oracle ] [ Level 19 ] [ Rank: 508 ]
About Us - The simExchange is the video game stock market and the source
for video game sales forecasts.
1
We need to wait for PSThree for faster drive (most probably).