@kspraydad, I'm surprised people are still trading the November future, unless its just to close a position in the short-term to trade something else. Otherwise, people need to start looking at the forum.
I didn't update the Wiki or contact admins as at the time Ubisoft had made no announcement (they did announce the EU for Dec 14) but they never changed the US versions Nov 27th date.
Thus my warning was for those not wanting to tie up money but SE couldn't rollback until Ubi made it official.
It has been listed as Dec 4th on the Playstation website for awhile, it isn't new...if you look back in the HAZE comments I've been warning about the FUTURE falling out of Nov for quite awhile.
It "appears" as if the release of PS3 exclusive Haze hadn't been delayed, but in fact, moved up. On the Official Playstation website of the U.S., Haze has been added to the Upcoming Games section with a December 4th release. Is there any truth in this? If so, this is all the sweeter for the gamers anticipating this title's release.
@feelmyring, my understanding of the case with using an average price of some sort for cashing out those stocks was because we were not certain whether those games were canceled. In this case, we know for certain Haze will not be selling in November.
I would say the refund is the way to go because this is the precedent that was set and the assumption we were trading on.
"What happens to people who had positions and traded out of them at some point before the delay was announced? Are their opening and closing positions rolled back? Is the money made lost to them?"
Yes, this is what happened when Stranglehold was delayed out of its month. I think this was all debated back then as well.
Overall, it just sucks in general that the game is delayed out of the Futures window. It would be better if we could just track the first four weeks of the game's sales, but NPD doesn't work that way.
@CriticalHit, I thought of a few things while I was out tonight.
What happens to people who had positions and traded out of them at some point before the delay was announced? Are their opening and closing positions rolled back? Is the money made lost to them?
I don't think that the IPO process as a method of determining a settlement price is an invalid way of getting rid of something that is pushed back. You said there's no point in guessing what WOULD have happened if Haze came out in Nov. But that's exactly how HAMMER, Elder Scrolls PSP and Shenmue Online were settled. There's a disconnect somewhere.
The other thought that occurred to me was, should there be a roll back: why not give people the option of rolling their position into the month that Haze is listed as a Future? They'd take the hit to their available cash, but we'd still retain the future for a later month.
As far as determining a close out price, why couldn't we do it in the same way that Project HAMMER, etc were closed out? Granted, it'd have to be slightly different, in that we KNOW that the game is not coming out in November, but surely there could be a way to establish an equitable price that would screw everyone equally.
I do definitely agree that it sucks we lost a future (this could have been LEGO Star Wars), and I'm somewhat disappointed that there still doesn't seem to be a set procedure for dealing with this. I say that because the original refund plan was quickly changed to what became the cash out plan, in the orginal .
I'm waiting for someone to say that I'm arguing for this because I'm short the future, but the God's honest truth of the matter is that I didn't think that the game would sell 94,700 copies in November, and the quantities that I was able to short at the time isn't really worth me getting into an argument over.
I'm finding the blatant lying and misdirection from ALL these companies to be tiring.
On Nov 16...just 4 days ago..the Free Radical blog said... Christmas is just around the corner. Apart from the obvious (buying copies of Haze for everyone I know) we're also gearing up for our Christmas party.
So in four days the game went from being a Xmas gift to being in Ubisoft's quarterly/annual report as coming next quarter? Funny...I thought they needed more lead time for that kind of decision.
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